It is good to see an increase in pay for teachers and staff--a bit more would be even better. Where does this budget leave us for universal K and expanded pre-K?

Teachers are already overpaid. 86 k a year, c'mon. Why in the world is the taxpayer paying for teachers health, medicare and social security, 100%?

John -- expanded pre-K wasn't specifically mentioned in this early proposal, but several school board members, including Pat Hynes (Hunter Mill), said they'd like to strengthen and/or expand pre-K education while they were campaigning last fall.

The board will have its first work session on this budget Feb. 2. It will also hold public hearings on the budget Jan. 30 and 31.

You can sign up to speak here: www.fcps.edu/schlbd/meetings/requestspeak.shtml
or by calling 571‐423‐1075.

With the current unemployment rate it seems that there's teachers of high caliber that would love a job here and at current levels. Sure seems like a change is needed as the USA ranks 14th in education worldwide! I know lets increase teacher pay and they will magically become better teachers and our students will get better scores. It's either the teachers or it's the students. What else is there in the world that the USA ranks 14th in? Soccer, sumo wrestling...

They make approximately 61 k plus 25 k in benefits. I'm sure every teacher there must be a saint but where does Fairfax rate at least country wide. Everyone says we are near the top yet I can't find any numbers on counties being rated. Ill will, no I don't wish the teachers ill will. 2 choices I see, either the students are bad or the teachers are bad? I probably can't live in La Jolla or some other rich neighborhoods that does not mean that I don't make great pipe. The 86 k includes benefits of which medicare and social security are paid for by our tax dollars. BTY the 86 k is for a 9 month job extend it out and it's about 115 k yearly.

FCPS!! Some parents like it and others don't. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Right, Karen. Furthermore, he claims the success of the students can be attributed to either the students or the teachers. That's just too simplistic a view. Parents and guardians are a much greater influence on student success than teachers will ever be. Poverty also affects students in many ways. One Florida study I read showed 80% of the difference in student achievement could be predicted based on family income. Perhaps that just supports the view that teachers aren't as relevant as we think they are, but it's my belief that great teachers are important to help students reach their best potential, regardless all the other challenges in their lives.

The only overpaid employees in FCPS are the Superintendent and his army of assistant superintendents. Teachers here earn every penny. They are part social worker, part parent and 100% mentor. They deserve their pay. Dale on the other hand....

Good Morning Frank. Yes 86 k is a big number and double down on that when it's taxpayer money! The median pay for a Associate Professor is about 70 k so you see the difference between the cost of college professors and high school, middle school teachers. Seems backwards to me maybe you can show me why the taxpayer should have to pay more for a average service. Also I am sure the 13 countries ranked ahead of the USA have poverty and special education issues themselves." Education Rankings by Countries 2011", but Karen is OK with this because her child is doing well.

I know lets go by the judgement of the parents and Karen instead of independent studies.

Yes, that's exactly what I am suggesting. Glad you see it my way. Have a great day!

lol you have a good day too!

Something that puzzles me. We are told housing prices keep many teachers and other county workers from living in Fairfax County. This makes some sense. But at the same time, FCPS tells us that large numbers of low-income children keep moving here. That's inconsistent. Are we admitting a significant number of students who reside outside Fairfax County? How good of a job do the Schools do in checking county residency?

The children are definitely residents. There is a certain amount of rental housing set aside for low income families (and there is a waiting list). Those families are not homeowners. Middle class people like teachers of course are not "low income" and would not qualify for such housing. But they are priced out of becoming homeowners in the county since this is one of the priciest housing markets in the country.

Karen, that's not necessarily true. I have two kids in my neighborhood that live in other counties who attend FCPS schools. Their mothers are nannies in my neighborhood and declare the home where they work as their residence. But I know for a fact that they do not live there. Infact in one of the situations, the mother and son live in Maryland. I remember when my oldest daughter was in elementary school there were several kids that lived in Reston and Herndon and attended Spring Hill Elementary school with her.

I've been told by school board members that the Schools are supposed to check residency within the County. This would be a good subject for an audit. People living outside Fairfax County are supposed to pay tuition when they send their children to FCPS. We need to know whether this a nit or a significant problem. As I understand the rules, residents of Maryland must pay tuition for their children to attend FCPS. Also, there is not a large number of county-supported affordable housing units, so I don't think this factor explains the growth.

This would be a good subject for a further study/story. Stay tuned...

I am a Fairfax County teacher. I have a master's degree in education, three endorsements on my license, and I am Highly Qualified to teach in an additional subject area. My social security is deducted from my paycheck, as is my mandatory retirement account contribution. My annual salary is paid over 12 months. I receive benefits through my spouse, whose employer offers more competitive pricing. I am fortunate enough to have a spouse who earns a salary that allows us to live in Fairfax County. This means I am one of the taxpayers who pays my exorbitant salary. If my spouse were to become unemployed, our children would qualify for free lunch - based on my salary. I spent my 1% cost-of-living salary increase on educational posters, organizational systems, and additional supplies for my classroom within the first month of school. I have attended training, taken classes, or pursued additional certification during my eight weeks of summer vacation every summer for the past six years. I have twice the number of points I need to renew my license and have only accumulated a few credits toward a salary increase; I chose to spend this time to improve my skills both in and out of the classroom.

This is what Fairfax County teachers do - with few exceptions. Some of the finest teachers I know are struggling to make ends meet, and may have to leave the profession, because we are so overpaid. $86,000? Sure - if I earn 30 more graduate credits...and work 22 more years.

Teaching is not a profession one enters for the money, the benefits, the summer vacation, or the accolades. Teaching is for those who wish to invest their time and share their knowledge with others in the hope that they might awaken a lifelong love of learning. In a world in which professional athletes don't play until they receive millions of dollars, is it wrong to pay teachers a salary commensurate with the cost of living in the area in which they teach?

There is a difference between an agreement with teachers living in a nearby county that permits their children to attend FCPS or a policy that educates homeless children and allowing children who live in other counties, cities, states or the District of Columbia to attend FCPS without tuition. FCPS says it checks residence, but how well does it? The County is going to face severe reductions in tax dollars as federal contracting shrinks. It needs to make sure that it is not educating the children of non-residents unless otherwise specifically permitted. The School Board should audit FCPS' performance here.

Amelie,

I don't understand how a teacher with a Master's and 20 years experience is making only 50K. I just looked at the salary schedule on FCPS and the starting salary for a teacher with a Master's is right at $50,000--a teacher with 20 years experience should be making in the 70's.
I do understand the concerns about the pay, however, I think teachers also need to realize that there are many starting salaries--even for college graduates -that are not as good as those teachers are making. I say this is a person who taught for a number of years. I agree that teachers work very, very hard. They also earn every penny they make. It is a tough job.
From my point of view, FCPS is not spending and allotting the money properly. I think far too much is staying at Gatehouse. No matter how much "assistance" and "support" is offered at Gatehouse, the teaching and learning happen in the classroom. The instructional support at Gatehouse are mostly justifying their jobs by requiring paperwork from teachers. Put the teachers in the classroom.

I don't understand why parents don't pay a higher share of their children's education. No one forced them to have children. I am childfree and I've been paying personal property and real estate taxes in this county since 1977 and roughly 2/3 of that money has gone to educate other people's children. That's a lot of money over the years. And yet parents think it is money they are entitled to. I don't mind kicking in a good hunk - let's say 1/3 of my taxes, but parents should pay some kind of surcharge for each of their spawn in the school system, so taxes on the childfree can be reduced and more fairly reflect the burden they place on county government. If my real estate taxes were reduced by a third every year, Aunt Smartypants and I could spend an extra week in Europe every summer.

People without children are a burden on the system later in life. Without kids to help in the support and care of the elderly, they are a heavier burden on Medicare etc. We have an elderly couple next door to us who would have been in assisted living years ago if not for the help of their children, who buy their groceries, drive them to doctor's appointments and clean their houses. Plus, a good school system helps your house appreciate in value, which you will benefit from when you sell it. I'm not saying there isn't validity to your argument, because it must seem like you're paying for something you don't benefit from. However, our kids are the ones who will hopefully cure cancer and fix the deficit, among other things. And your taxes go for a lot more than the schools!

You really need to factor in retirement benefits to calculate the salary of teachers. A defined benefit plan promises you a set amount each year. Unlike the rest of us smucks, they don't just get back what they put in. Add retired health benefits to that and the number soars. The real kicker? They get full retirement after 30 years of service. We, as taxpayers, could be paying their retirement for 30+ years after they have retired. There aren't too many professions out there that promise you that. Its a pay me now or pay me later deal. And not a bad one at that.

Amelie, $200-$300 per month for health insurance (BCBS) is quite the deal!! Imagine how much you would have to pay per month if you weren't receiving this benefit.

Adding to the discussion: Fairfax County voters approved a $252.75 million school bond referendum in November 2011, and another $232.58 million school bond was approved by voters in 2009. This in addition to the FCPS Proposed FY 2013 Budget. Comments? http://patch.com/A-mx7Q

To clarify, capital improvements aren't funded through the school system's operating budget. They're funded through bonds (borrowing), which voters either approve or reject at the polls.

I just wanted to make sure nobody gets the wrong impression: While CIPs are funded by taxpayer money, it is a separate pool of money than the fiscal year budget.

Amelie - We aren't talking about children of illegal immigrants. The law says we must educate everyone living in Fairfax County. We are talking about people who live in D.C., Maryland, or anywhere outside Fairfax County and are illegally sending their kids to FCPS without paying tuition. People registering their children must provide proof of residence. We need to audit that - followup on a statistically valid sample to see whether the proof is valid. Just knowing that an audit is being conducted will cause people to pull their kids out of FCPS and send them to schools where they live.

Erica, you are right about the bonds. But service on the debt, both interest and payback of principle, come from taxpayers.

So a teacher work 3/4's of the year and retires after 30 years. Comes to 22 and 1/2 years of actual work whereas Joe the plumber works until he is 65 or 45 years. Therefor Joe is twice the asset to society that a teacher is?

There has been a lot of discussion on the topic of teacher salaries. I am curious. Given that we taxpayers pay teacher salaries, what do you think is a fair starting salary for a teacher? What about a teacher with 20 years experience? Or should all schools be private, funded by parents? And then what do we do about the requirement that children go to school? Does the government force parents to pay to educate their children even if they don't want to or can't afford it?

Yo Kim! I hate waste be it by the President of the USA, a former Speaker of the House, a school administrator, a school teacher or anyone else for that matter. My contention is our school system is flawed and expensive compared to the results. Good money after wasteful money even in the name of the children is just plain stupid. Private schools seem to do a lot more with less maybe its time to upgrade the modus operandi.

Private schools do not have to educate the most expensive students -- special ed and ESOL. They also pay teachers a lot less. Teachers in private schools are willing to work for less because they don't have the behavior problems you see in public school and because they get a discounted tuition for their own children. Often, too, public schools have huge endowments from previous alums... and your contention that they "do more with less" is a little odd. Tuition for a private school in Northern Virginia is equal to college tuition at UVA -- or higher. $10,000, $15,000, depending on the school. Fairfax County gets roughly $3400 per student from Richmond.

Smartypants: to quote just one source: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/~/~/media/Fiscal-Times/Research-Center/Taxation/Academic%20Papers/2010/03/01/fiscal%20externalities%20of%20becoming%20a%20parent.ashx?pid={BAC9CB50-00D6-4964-A72D-B8F149906CA0} which states "[I]nformal care provided by family, friends, and neighbors is widely acknowledged to comprise the majority of long-term care and support in the U.S. (Wolff & Kasper 2006). Most disabled elders are not institutionalized, and within that group most receive care either exclusively from informal providers or from a mixture of formal and informal providers. Unmarried individuals without living children are more likely than those with children to be in nursing homes, in cross-section (McNally & Wolf 1996), while childless elders have significantly higher levels of publicly-funded nursing home costs (through Medicare and Medicaid combined) than do parents (Wolf 1999). Other research has shown that having children serves both to delay entry into, and hasten exit from, nursing homes (Garber & MaCurdy 1990; Freedman 1993; Aykan 2003; Gaugler et al. 2007)." Want some more examples? I think you are "ascertaining" otherwise because you don't WANT to know the facts and think it won't happen to you.

Glad to learn FCPS does audit its performance checking for students that are supposed to pay tuition. They follow up on anything that looks strange and will investigate tips from the public. The standards are pretty tough too. A student must normally reside with a parent or legal guardian who lives in Fairfax County.

Why not give the teachers a raise and fire all of the useless "advisors" and vice principals. In my opinion there are way too many advisors/administrators/vice principals. I was stuck with an advisor at South Lakes who was useless. Example, she had no idea who my kid was. How sad! He was already in 10th grade. South Lakes was a small school at that time, so she didn't have many students. Talk about a cushy job. Fire all of the useless advisors and give the teachers a raise! Fine with me. Would still be hard to live on a teacher's salary in Fairfax County. I don't agree that teachers should have to live near the schools where they are employed. Do teachers in Beverly Hills live in Beverly Hills?

Sounds like we need Bain Capital in here.