we all know high school students do drugs? its just what high school students do? Umm...I graduated Madison in 2004, and I never once did drugs. Well I guess thats because some kids choose not to be "young and stupid", some of us can actually think for ourselves, be ourselves, and most of all "think" lol.

Last I checked though, weed kills less people than tobacco though. Yet weed is illegal? Ive never done it, and never will...but its just odd. Let students do what they want though, the best way to learn is to learn from your mistakes. Unfortunately kids these days are just too "young and stupid" to learn from a video, word of mouth, etc.

Whats funniest is, most of these kids' parents think they have the most perfect kids ever, when in reality they have the dumbest. I think parents need to wake up and stop spoiling their bratty kids, or theyll never survive as adults.

Femail madison students dress up in "slutty" outfits on Langly game days. Haha what's better, hippies or prostitutes? In my eyes at least Madison students won't die from a cocaine overdose or an STD like some the Langly group. ( I personally know students who actually have ODed and actually do have STDs that attend Langly).

The Graffity- thanks immature freshman and sophomores. I can agree that it is uncalled for and unnessassy. If you want to draw, enroll in art. As to the " rember prohibition; still doesn't work" artist- he nailed that one on the head.

And it's suprising how much we look at the bad-and decide Madison is a bad place. Open your eyes,parents. Your focusing way too much on a miniory and acting on it as if its an epidemic. And pease don't judge us based on your ignorance.

Why was the title of this article about how Madison students are proud of their school and offer an alternative view of the situation, when the article was just another stereotype of teens and drugs? I am a Madison Senior and have never done drugs, smoked, or had alcohol. Kids today don't do drugs with any more or less frequency than their parents and grandparents did in the sixties and seveties - the same adults who are suddenly outraged that our high school is descending into Dante's Inferno. Look at Madison's test scores, look at its graduation rate, look at student involvement in after school activities - if you find a problem with any of those, then crack down. But frankly, whatever the students are doing seems to be working - smart kids smoke, dumb kids smoke, neither represent the whole school. Hey, if correlation is any indication (and I know it's not), then pass me a doobie and your Zippo and let's pass it around, because Madison is one of the greatest schools in the country.

Enough! Why does The Patch have such an issue with Madison???? I have a Madison graduate, a Madison Junior and one going to Madison next year. Madison is a wonderful education! I went to a private all girls catholic school in the area and guess what....there were drugs! Kids can get drugs if they want them no matter where they go to school. The Patch seems to be nothing more than a pot stirring gossip rag! How about some across the board fair journalism? It's interesting how you didn't mention Langley's drug numbers. Check it out...astounding! You do realize there are children on the other side of your words! Nothing constructive is coming out of this kind of writing! We all got your point! Believe it or not there are ALOT of good drug free kids at Madison. If you need help finding them let me know! Let's do a story on them!

Bob: The article reflected what students told Vienna Patch in the survey. Have you read the PDF? There are more student responses there.I'm happy that more students, such as yourself, are offering opinions as well. Please continue to offer your thoughts.

Trish, this was a series on a specific issue at the high school. There were a handful of articles that ran over the course of a bit more than a week. Now, that series is over. There were two other stories (three, including one sports) about Madison High accomplishments in the last five days alone. There's likely been nearly 100 or more of those stories since we've launched in October. There will continue to be stories about students, clubs and teams at the High School and their accomplishments. There will continue to be stories about issues at the school, things that the administration is trying to work on and things parents are concerned about. Vienna Patch is here to report on what is happening -- the positive and the not-so-positive alike. Ignoring an issue that's be ongoing this year in the Madison Community would be a disservice to readers.

Trish, if you'd like to suggest a specific story, you can always e-mail me at erica.hendry at patch.com. Readers often send me ideas.

I appreciate all the comments on this article, particularly from students -- this space is for you, too. Please keep the (respectful) discussion going.

Thanks!
Erica

Erica, this "issue" is only ongoing due to some parents with too much free time and active immaginations. This series consists of ALOT of opinions and speculation. Very little facts! Because immature Langley students decide to wear tyedye doesn't constitute proof that there is excessive drug use at Madison. Once again...gossip that is hurting the reputation of good students and a good school. There were NEVER enough facts to constitute a "series" so think about the people/children on the other side of your reporting.

The "small minority" shouldn't define a school. Nobody ever said they didn't matter.

Maggie - where are you getting your information? You state that "several years ago, the population of pot smokers at Madison went from a small minority to almost a majority." Not so. In fact, according to the 2008 Youth Survey, drug and alcohol use has been steadily decreasing in Fairfax since 2001. At Madison, 13% of 10th graders and 25% of 12th graders reported using pot within the last 30 days during 2008. Granted, still too many - but hardly a majority. Much worse than pot use is use of alcohol and binge drinking where 32% of 12th graders reported binge drinking within the last 30 days. And even worse than that is the number of kids who self-identify as being depressed in the past year - 25% of 8th graders and 28% of 10th graders. It seems to me like depression affects more of our kids than pot.

@Jami-you didn't have to say it...you imply it by not wanting to focus on THIS aspect of Madison. It doesn't DEFINE the school, but when a particular issue has been ignored for far too long, it tends to hog the stage when it does. You call it gossip and speculation - because that is what you want to believe. Have you talked to anyone other than people who agree with your assumptions? Quite frankly, the comments you make are riddled with gossip and speculation - Erica has done her homework.

Groovis...thanks for stating some facts.

Caroline - I've had several kids at Madison for the past 7 years. Of the many Madison kids I've known over the years, I have to say that only a couple of them either smoke or smoked pot in high school. So if we're going on anecdotal information, my experience is that pot isn't any more of a problem at Madison that at any other local high school. The kids I've know have been far too focused on getting into UVA or Tech or JMU to devote themselves to pot smoking. Do you have kids at the school? What have they told you about drug use at Madison? Do you personally know of kids who smoke?

haha - Groovis stated facts, but they are EXTREMELY misleading. According to the 2009 (which is more recent than 2008, last I checked) youth survey, alcohol, binge drinking, and cigarettes have all gone down from 2008 - but marijuana, inhalents, methamphetamines, crack/cocaine, LSD/psychedelics have all gone UP since 2008. In addition, Fairfax students reported higher than the national average for last 30-day use of inhalants, ecstacy, and methamphetamines. They also had a an increase in LIFETIME use in most categories, other than alchol and cigarettes. The most interesting fact of all is that while lifetime alchol use for Ffx. Co. 10th graders has decreased, lifetime marijuana use has incresed. What this tells me is that they have switched from alchol and cigarettes to pot. Probably because they are depressed.

We can go back and forth "picking and choosing" statistics to prove our point, but how helpful that?? I'm not comfortable with what the statistics REALLY show , if you read more than just one chart from 2008. I'm not comfortable with sitting back and chalking it up to "gossip." If you look at how drug use spreads over time and how the pendulum swings, you would see clearly that we could have a real problem on our hands in the near future. They don't believe adults anymore - because we told them pot was harmful, yet they have not seen anything harmful about it. So, they are moving on to other things that we told them were harmful-THEY DON'T BELIEVE US!

I don't know about Caroline, but YES, Groovis - I personally know of kids who smoke...and you might be surprised to know that some of them actually got into UVa. haha. Even smart, focused kids smoke pot. Again, why do you people seem to think it's ok to ignore kids who are smoking pot and doing heavier drugs just because YOU don't know them. I just don't get that. Funny thing is, you probably actually know more of them than you think. The stress and depression you speak of is another piece of the puzzle - not all kids commit suicide - some of them turn to DRUGS AND ALCOHOL.

All high schools have drugs. According to a survey of students, Madison has more than the average Fairfax County high school. As a parent, I want to know this, and I want to know what the school is doing about it. Talking about it - parent-to-parents, parents and school, parents and kids - is the best way to confront this problem and deal with it. I am glad that Patch is getting this issue out in the open.

I am also glad to see some students posting here, and especially students who have made a conscious decision to stay away from drugs (good for you!!!). Yes, it's possible to get all the way through Madison without ever being offered drugs or exposed to them, but that is not the typical student's experience.

Trish, there have been plenty of positive stories about high schoolers on Vienna Patch, and not just sports (music, drama, DECA in just the past couple of weeks). But this is a news site, so when the news is negative, it's going to get reported. Erica and her team are doing a good job of staying on top of what is happening in and around Town.

On behalf of tie-dye fans, I would like to point out that there is no correlation with wearing tie-dyed clothing and drug use.

C'mon people - I know you are smarter than this. The CDC statistics you are posting a link to is from 2009 - which is NOT the latest information, and is only showing declines in some of the substances but increaes in others - such as HEROIN. If you really look - you can find some statistics from 2010 - and it clearly shows drug use on the rise. Who cares if it declined between 2001 and 2009??? Great - but it's going back up again, and I am more concerned with what is happening NOW - not what happened in the past.

Just so I don't get attacked for my spelling - I am posting rather quickly. :)

L Bligh - haha...I am sure someone will find a statistic to prove you wrong. :)

Once again...back to parenting! Are we going to blame all the colleges next? I have a daughter in college and there are drugs there! There are drugs in the adult world! It isn't going to go away. It's about teaching children how to make good decisions and consequences of bad ones. Children will make mistakes and not all children who have smoked pot are bad or have bad parents. It also doesn't mean that the high school they go to is a haven for drugs! This trail of comments has gone from one school to a national problem. Can you please attach the survey that has the statistics stating that Madison has a higher than average drug problem? Not just a few kids comments but statistic. And where do you get your defination of a typical students experience at Madison? I guess my 2 kids aren't typical. I guess in raising them they really did learn to" stay away from bad things" like their father told them every day on their way to school.

To take the discussion in a different direction: How can the community work together to prevent drug use and change this reputation of Madison regarding the students' drug use? Does anybody know of any good programs that could be brought to the school? Students, what has been effective in preventing you or your friends from using drugs?

@Nicole - THAT is what some of us have been working on quite tirelessly, as I stated in a previous comment. The "project" as I will call it for now, is well under way - but in the development stage. We are hoping to move to the implementation stage by the beginning of next school year. It is quite an undertaking, but we have STUDENTS as the focus and it will not include your run-of-the-mill "just say no" drug education. We are looking at successful programs and other communities to guide us in our efforts.

@Jami - Where do you see anyone blaming schools? The debate has been about whether or not students are using drugs and to what extent - I don't see any reference to it being the school's fault. In fact, all of the students I have spoken to would blame it on parents more than the school - if they place blame at all. Most would say that they make their own choices and it's no one's "fault." However, the parents and the school need to work together, with the students, in order to affect change. In terms of survey results, Groovis gave the 2008 data -let's use that...25% of MADISON 12th graders and 12% of MADISON 10th graders report having smoked pot within last 30 days - as opposed to county average of 17% and 9%, respectively. But those are only 2008 results, so I would look at the more recent survey results. You asked, though - and I think this is why some people started comparing Madison to other schools. I, personally, don't care how we compare.

@Jami - my comment above was written before I saw your latest, and I just have to ask....where in the heck have you been for the last 6 months???? We've already talked to the students who don't do drugs, we've talked to Madison security and the SRO, AND we've even asked Mr. Merrell how parents can help him. I don't mean to be rude - honestly...just that I can't imagine how anyone could have such strong opinions and be so uninformed at the same time. Sorry.

Nicole - The community newspaper and parents could stop drawing media attention to a minor and common issue and instead focus on more serious problems, such as the adult divorce rate and unemployment.

What has been effective in preventing drug use? Well it hasn't been deterrent, because the smartest, most intelligent, highest-GPA earning students I know have smoked. It's hard to look at John Smith, whom you know was smacked at a party last weekend, and whose status is, "John Smith just got accepted into UChicago!" and worry that marijuana is going to destroy your future.

You want to prevent drug use? Get involved. Get your kid reading. Don't let your kid drive around unless you know where they're going, and audit their stories. I hear so many parents complaining about drug use at school - I know maybe 2 kids who smoke during school hours. The rest do it when parents aren't home or when they are driving around town. It's your job, parents - not the community's. Not the school's. Don't give your 16 year old son a car, phone, and cash and then expect them to spend their time enriching their cultural knowledge or understanding or God only knows what you expect from them. From us.

Bob Marley - you are not telling us anything we don't already know, in terms of what parents can do to help deter drug use. Unfortunately, parents alone cannot do it. Is it the school's JOB to keep kids drug-free? NO! Is it the parent's job? NO. Is it the kid's job? YES. Kids can't tell us in one breath that they can make their own choices and then tell us in the next that it is OUR job to keep them off drugs. I call b.s. on that big time. The reason that the school needs to be involved in the effort is because that is where students spend most of their time - and who else is there all day with them??? The friends that are going to be smoking (or whatever) with them before and after school and driving around. If KIDS help deter other kids, that goes a LONG way...and gee, just where would you get ALL the kids together in the SAME place in order to reach them? THAT is where the school comes in. You, along with most in this thread, are criticizing and attacking some "ghost" attitude or opinion, instead of actually reading and understanding. No one is blaming schools, no one is saying all Madison students are druggies, no one is saying Madison is the worst drug school in the county. You are all missing the point by more than a few miles.

And, while I'm on my soap box -

What on Earth does being offered pot or any other drug have to do with this issue?

I don't know if another student on this board insinuated that they have never been offered drugs, but I certainly haven't. I have had the means and the opportunity to secure and smoke enough pot to take me higher than K2. But I haven't. And not because of Nancy Reagan (wife of America's greatest president), or any 'just say no' program, or any announcement on Friday morning. Rather, I'm 'safe and drug free' because my parents taught me what right and wrong look like, and how to pursue the former. Your kids are going to face choices like drugs and sex and violence at some point in life - perhaps, rather than trying to postpone that situation, your efforts (as parents and as a community) would be better spent preparing them for it. Just a thought.

Have I forgotten the original article, or did it deal (at least in large part) with measures the school is taking to prevent drug use?

Did I incorrectly understand the purpose of the VMCC is to start school initiatives to curb student drug use?

Parents alone can't curb drug use? Then what on earth are they for? It is ABSOLUTELY the parents' job to make sure their kids are prepared to make the right choices when tough situations come along. See my above post. I, to quote you, 'call major b.s. on that one' (which one of us is the adult?).

Neither did I say that Madison is being attacked as one of the worst drug schools. I simply claim, along with the rest of the local, involved, interested populace on this thread, that the claimed size and scale of the 'problem' are out of proportion to the actual effects of that problem in the school.

I cannot believe that we as a community have reached a place where a free thinking adult could actually, in all honesty and with a straight face, claim that the responsibility for the choices a child makes does not fall to the parents. I am a product of my upbringing, and so are you - to claim otherwise is preposterous.

Great for you, Bob...that you have great parents, I mean. But, um...have you been READING any of the ocmments??? Mine, at least, are all about PREPARING and EDUCATING kids that are inevitably going to face the choices you mention. Where does it say anything about POSTPONING the choices? In fact, if you read back far enough in the thread, you will see that I mention something about being proactive - not waiting for the cancer to spread. What I meant by that, in case you missed it, is that we need to reach kids before they are presented with the choice - and educate them enough so they can make the right choice - and by that I don't mean MY choice. If they have all the facts, they will make better choices. Adults are smarter than you think, Bob. Some of them, anyway. :)

Bob is right.

Just FYI - the comments are posted out of order for anyone who may be tuning in. In response to his last, I am going to forgo the sarcasm and just say--you need to READ CAREFULLY before you comment. You quote me calling b.s., but you misrepresent what I was calling b.s. on. I have said (repeatedly) that parents are a big part of curbing drug use by educating kids - and that they need to work TOGETHER with the school and the students. What I called b.s. on was that parents can actually keep their kid drug free - only the KID can keep the kid drug free. You are misusing the words "prevent" and "deterrent" - which is confusing only YOU.

In response to your claim that "the size and scale of the problem is out of proportion to the actual effects of the problem in that school"...if I am interpreting correctly, you think that "people" (parents?) are blowing this whole "problem" way out of proportion, right? Can you tell me what makes you think so? I am asking in all earnestness. Is it possible that no one is blowing anything out of proportion and that this itself is a rumor? I, for one, have not heard anything "hysterical" in any of the discussions I've been involved in or privy to - everyone has pretty much the same perspective about how "big" the problem is. On the other hand, some people do seem to think that there isn't a problem AT ALL. THAT is what is preposterous.

I don't care if ONE kid at Madison is doing drugs or if they are ALL doing drugs - we are not doing our job as a community . We need to be helping the ones who are using and doing our best to see that the others know how to make informed, positive choices. Your view that everything would be ok if parents would just do what you suggest is ideelistic I wish it were that simple, but not all kids have parents like yours, Bob. What should we do about the kids whose parents are not engaged and paying attention? Should we just write them off? Let them get expelled so only the "good" kids with "good" parents will be left at Madison. Ha! That view is definitely a product of a privileged VIENNA upbringing - I did not say YOUR upbringing because I don't make assumptions.

And, yes, Bob...this free-thinking adult is going to honestly say (AGAIN for all to hear) that the responsibility for the choices a child makes does NOT fall to the parents - it falls to the CHILD. I teach my children to make their OWN choices, but I first give them HONEST and ACCURATE INFORMATION so that they are equipped to do so. After that, if they make a bad choice - it's on THEM. How preposterous!

OK - let me just clarify for people who seem to be misinterpreting my comments - or, perhaps, deliberately twisting them until they are unrecognizable. If you carefully read the comment that seems to be causing all the trouble, you will see that I do NOT say it is not the parent's responsibility to educate, inform, and guide the kid to make good choices. What I said was that it is not the parent's JOB to keep a kid drug free it is the KID'S job to keep himself or herself drug free. I am clearly not using the words responsibility and job interchangeably, as there is a difference, albeit subtle. What YOU people seem to believe is that the parent should be attached to the kid's hip and intervene when he or she reaches for a joint or a beer. Forgive me for thinking this is not possible. Could someone please explain to me how this is done? I am clearly out of the loop on this one. I was thinking that I just had to TALK to my kid a lot and be open with them about the hazards of drug use and share my experiences. Then, when they are out of the house - or in it when I'm not - they will choose to refrain from doing things that might harm or get them in trouble. And, if they "defy all odds" and make a bad choice, they will have to suffer the consequences. I didn't realize I could actually STOP them from making the bad choice by somehow being with them at all times. Silly me. If my kid is arrested, am I supposed to go to jail for him, too , since it will all be my fault?

Raise your kids right and there won't be a problem. Teach them about peer pressure and what is wrong. Every school has drugs and I would love for someone to inform me if they find a school without any. If you all want me to be honest, some of you are being very juvenile about this.
1) this article shouldn't have been written in the first place.
2) a lot of these comments are very hateful. Just state your opinion and move on. Quit trying to start a fight WITH YOUR CAPS LOCK KEY ON
3) I am a Madison graduate (I graduated last year) and I saw pot one time. It's about who your kids are hanging out with.
Quit hating on Madison when every school has the same amount of drugs….they're just not getting caught as often. I'm sorry to say it, but in your own little world you all think your kids are perfect little angels that come home at night and go to bed on time when in reality they all experiment with many things like drugs, alcohol, and even sex. Get over it and just teach them what is right and what is wrong.

I've added the 2008 Student survey result to the photos above. This is a break out of the overall results in comparison with Madison HS pyramid schools. I believe the next time (2012?) they do the survey they will do the break out again so each HS pyramid will have results based on their individual schools.

@Jami - I am sorry you think I am rude. I don't think I have ever been described as rude, and don't think you'd find anyone that would say that about me. What you should understand is that there are some parents who have been working 24/7 to do many of the things you have suggested (or asked if anyone has done). So, if you put yourself in my shoes, it would be a little irritating when parents who are clearly not aware of any of the work that IS being done all of the sudden decide to jump in and spout off their "ideas." You have not suggested even ONE thing that has not already been done. Not ONE. When you have been burning the candle at both ends on behalf of ALL Madison students - and the ones at Thoreau and Kilmer, too - it might make you just a little bit edgy to hear people say things that you know are not accurate, and throw out statistics that you know are not exactly representative of the whole picture. And talk about offensive? When certain people blur the lines between fact and fiction and paint others as "crazy"in order to further their own agenda - THAT is offensive. And THAT is what has been going on in this town for months - while a few of us are working diligently on behalf of the people who actually matter the most - the KIDS! If you want specific information on anything I am working on, please feel free to email me directly...magpie0813@gmail.com

Hi all,

It's been brought to my attention that there may have been photo issues earlier. You should now be able to easily access the PDF at the top of the article.
Thanks for reading,
Erica

I'm a junior at madison and I find this article to be humorous, if nothing else. Yeah, students do smoke pot. But to say that 70% of the school does, as stated above, is an EXTREME exaggeration. And to say that it has gotten worse is ridiculous. It hasn't gotten worse, it's simply been made a bigger deal than it is. This article makes it sound like you walk in the bathroom and pot is shoved into your hands. How do you prevent a student from smoking after they've been dismissed with a doctors note? Or not to smoke before school? It's the parents job to teach the students not to do drugs, but at some point the student has to make choices on their own. Do you want the teachers to escort the student everywhere they go? Have a parent be with them everywhere? If that's the case, then what about college? Drugs aren't a major issue at Madison, I know, I go there. I've never done drugs, and I'm very much capable of going to the bathroom without being offered drugs, seeing drugs, or smelling drugs. You people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

@HockeyGirl - no one is "hating on Madison" - I have 3 Madison or soon-to-be Madison kids - even my husband graduated from Madison. We LOVE Madison. I don't use my caps lock key - I actually just hold down the shift key. :) I do that to emphasize certain words because people keep twisting what I say. There's no hate in any of my comments - only frustration. This is not about Madison having a drug problem - we all know all high schools have drugs. This is about what to do for the kids who may be going down a dangerous road, and also trying to make sure that the others are informed and educated enough to continue making good choices as they get older. It's about educating middle schoolers so that they make good choices when they get to high school. Yes, raising kids right is important - but not all kids have the kind of involved parents that most Madison kids do. Those are the kids that are most susceptible to drug use and get suspended or expelled. Those are the kids that I, personally, am trying to help - because I have the means and the compassion to do so - not because I think Madison is a druggie school. I have been in communication with several former students who have been providing me with the information I need to help ALL kids - but particularly the ones who need it the most. One of the students specifically asked for my help because he thinks no one will listen to him. So, this is not about hate - nothing could be further from the truth.

And I have been posting here today not to start arguments, but to defend this article because kids' need to be heard - every adult should be reading what they have to say and listening with an open mind. You might not like what you read, but that doesn't make the material less valuable or less true. Just because they all go into the same building every day doesn't mean they have identical experiences on any given day, and certainly not throughout the course of 4 years. We need to listen to all of them - not just the ones who tell us what we want to hear. And, for the record, I do not mean tell us what we want to hear, as in they are dishonest. Don't read into it.

I'm a junior currently at Madison, and I would just like to say that you parents are all on here fighting about this issue instead of trying to resolve it. Sure there is drug use at Madison, as well as every other school. Undoubetly I could find almost any drug if I wanted to right this moment. However, your job as parents should be the ones informing your kids to stay away from them. I believe that everyone will be at some point in their lives will be exposed to drugs and it is ultimately up to them to say no. You can blame it on administrative staff, lack of security but I'm not quite sure if you understand the amount of security already enforced. They have just installed 360 cameras around the school and do continuous bathroom checks throughout the day. There is no doubt in my mind Madisons security staff is on top of making sure the students are safe, which is their job not to try and get kids in trouble for drugs. However, despite the increasing security kids are still using drugs, why? Because we are smarter then to get in trouble for something so stupid. Marijuana is slowly becoming legalized throughout the world because it has been proven to be no where near as harmful as cigarettes and alcohol. My point is that Madison may have a lot of drug use but it is ultimately up to YOUR child to make the decision to use or not, no one can stop them. We are old enough to make our own decisions, and believe it or not what you say here won't change much to us.

Can I get a judge's ruling on Maggie's tone?

Don't imply that I have some lack of respect for adults or believe they are less than intelligent.

Don't use a condescending and faux-convivial tone with me in order to achieve a superior air and then imply that I am being immature or foolish. Examine your word choice, Maggie, and use caps lock carefully. Our point is this: There's more to Madison than drugs (what the headline, if not the actual article, implies). Nothing you can do is going to change the fact that some kids will do drugs - and trying to crack down certainly isn't going to help. Do you know what the kids do when Mr. Merrell gets on the PA every Friday morning and announces a statistic about drug use? They laugh, and they're turned off from your cause. Recognize that 'burning both ends of the candle' or fighting for anything is useless if you don't know your audience. Quote statistics all you like, but as a Madison student, I can tell you that you don't know me, you don't know how to reach me, and if I was hittin' the bong nightly, this conversation and any/all of the policies in place would not deter me. Involvement, care, and respect would. Try a little more of the latter, you'll be surprised how many kids are smarter than you think, Maggie. This one, anyway :)

I don't think I asked you to comment back to me about how I'm wrong, Maggie. There's a reason I said say your opinion and move on.

@Maggie- you say that not every student has the same experiences. But they do all go to the same school, where the amount of kids that do drugs are still the same... whether or not they have encounters with it differs, but I highly doubt each student goes to the bathroom and finds drugs there frequently unless they're looking for it.

@Anna-I understand what you are saying, but I never said anything about any student going into the bathroom and finding drugs their frequently. In all of my posts, I have not once said anything about what goes on inside Madison during the day. Please go back and read them - and this is not condescending. My comment about every kid having a different experience came from reading the survey responses that are attached to the article - that's all. It seems to me that there is a mixture of feelings and so I was pointing that out. I am not some evil parent.

Bob is really who I wanted to respond to...I am guilty of being condescending in places and not guilty in other places. I apologize for that sincerely because it is not usually my style. I can be sarcastic, but never condescending. I am very tired and cranky today. I felt like you completely misinterpreted a lot that I was saying, and my frustration came out rudely. Sorry - honestly. But even in your last post, you say, "There's more to Madison than drugs, Maggie." Yet, all throughout this thread I have actually been saying this. I keep going back and reading to find out where anyone gets the idea that I think Madison is a druggie school. I have said that it doesn't matter to me how many kids are actually doing drugs - it is just important to give them the honest truth about drugs so they can make good choices. I am trying to do this because former Madison students have ASKED for my help. And when you say I should try a little bit of the latter (meaning involvement, care, and respect), you assume that I have not been doing that already. You are making a lot of assumptions and they happen to be very incorrect. That is where the frustration comes in.

If you really want to open the dialogue and tell me how to reach kids, feel free to email me at magpie0813@gmail.com
And it's maGpie, not magGie -was that an ok use of caps? :) I don't know why it says Maggie I know what you're thinking, but you're wrong.

to continue....I don't know about you, Bob - but I suspect that Olivia and Hockey Girl think I am someone who I am not. It is possible that I am wrong. Nevertheless, I think they would be very surprisedto know who I am - so I will just tell them in advance that I still love them.

Maggie, if you want to help children and educate them about drug use that is more than respectable and honorable. This article was about Madison High School. Your earlier quote is "This isn't about Madison having a drug problem". That is exactly what this article is about and it's very offensive. It is negative and it does imply alot of things based on small speculation. That is where the sensitivity is coming from with people. Reread your comments to Hockeygirl. You repeatedly told her she was wrong. Take a deep breath Maggie and figure out exactly what you want your focus to be and come to the table with a calm, cool head. You'll accomplish alot more.

Thank you for the feedback - seriously. I did re-read what I wrote to Hockey Girl and still don't see whet I say she was wrong. I was trying to explain MY involvement in any of this and give my perspective. When I read it, I am not even hearing any sarcasm or condescension in that particular comment. I truly believe you are reading it in a different tone than was intended. I owned up to the places where I was perhaps a little rude to the people that I directed that at...but I did not at all intend that with hockey girl. When I said, THIS isn't about a drug problem, I was not referring to the article -I was referring to my reasons for even getting involved. And I have never had any other reason than advocating for kids. One day, you will realize this, I hope.

I don't care what other parents think of me and have stayed out of the conflict until very recently...but I do care what kids think. if you read my comments without any bias whatsoever, I think you might see that.

I would simply like to thank Maggie for her impassioned responses and efforts to bring change and improve the situation at Madison in re: to keeping drugs out of the confines of the school. SO many kneejerk reactions from the majority of you are so off base and annoying beyond belief b/c you don't even read the posts but just strike blindly and with such unfounded malice it's incredible . She is out there making efforts - not fingerpointing away from parent's and kid's responsibilites but trying to improve the administration's role in keeping drugs out of the school. Of course parents need to raise their kids properly but there's something called free will and teenagers relish in using it - it's not black and white. If only more people cared enough to get off their butts and work on improving their community instead of lambasting someone who is - Vienna would be far better off.

S'alright Magpie, my name isn't actually Bob Marley. I go by Robert.

bk: If Vienna was any better off, it would be Mayberry.

Bob, I applaud you for giving your parents some much deserved credit. Yes, it is your responsibility to make good choices from here on out but it was your parents responsibilty to plant the seeds. I am aastounded by the comments that it isn't a parents responsibility. Maggie, it is a good and honorable thing you are trying to accomplish. Hopefully it will help cover the kids who's parents don't have time to raise them. We may have found the problem!

Dear Maggie/Magpie/Emily/Jane/Susan A - I hear the VMCC needs all new board members. Put your money where your mouth is and sign up. Maybe bk can sign up, too.

We want our kids to be the best they can be so we will work on all areas. I think the Commenters you have identified, Groovis, get the big picture and based on their Comments I am confident they are already very involved with their time and talent. There is a lot of defensiveness going on and a lot of emotions. I love that the students are defending their school. However, I have heard very different assessments of what goes on at Madison than some of the kids have posted. Working with Mr. Merrell and Madison is one part only of addressing the problem. We want to reach out to all avenues available to educate and set a good example. We want to listen to the kids.
Bob - please give us ideas on what will influence you besides thank goodness your parents. (I don't think these Comments are meant to do that in response to your Comment). Do you think the kids are underestimating what drugs or alcohol may result in (i.e., poor decisions while high such as driving ability, sexual behavior, possible arrest....)?
Thanks for reading.

Sue - I believe the people I have identified are actually all the same person and that readers of the Vienna Patch are being duped by a person who is signing up and commenting using different log-in ids. Again, if drugs at school is your issue (as you seem to indicate), then man-up and fill one of the vacant VMCC board slots. Don't just say "I volunteer" because you show up to one or two meetings.

Hi all,
Just a note of clarification: Patch monitors for readers who try to use different log-in IDS.
The users you've listed, Groovis, are all different people. If you ever suspect otherwise for other user names, please let me know via e-mail. We want to keep these conversations honest.

Thanks for reading,
Erica

I honestly hope everyone realizes that these surveys are a complete joke. Very few people, if at all, fill them out honestly. A high schooler stuck in class all day who is sudenly handed a packet and told to fill it out is, of course, going to put whatever they want. As a CURRENT STUDENT and someone who knows what happens here, I can honestly say that there is not a drug problem. Why is it that just Madison has to be associated with drug users? Look at Langley, Marshall, Oakton, or Centreville. How many heroin overdoses have we had at Madison again? And parents of the VMCC, if your kids are the 'good students' that you claim they are, then how are they familiar with the smell and the ways of ingesting marijuana? think about it

Erica - It's me Groovis trying to demonstrate how easy it is to create different log-in IDs on Patch.

Groovis,

I know it is possible to create different log-ins. But there are other ways we can monitor who creates them.

If we find people are using more than one ID to comment on stories, we have the right to suspend them. (I won't suspend you for this :) But please stick to Groovis from here on out). It often takes some time to do that but we've done it before successfully.

Thanks,
Erica

Groovis - I can assure you that I only have ONE login...and that is magpie - go look at some of the comments on other articles and you will see my comments. I am not sure why it is coming up as Maggie in this particular thread - I must have done something wrong when logging in, obviously. Nevertheless, I specifically state in this thread that it should be magPie, not magGie. I am not trying to hide anything or be anyone different than who I am. I am proud of who I am. As for the other aliases that you THINK (sorry for the caps lock Bob and Hockey Girl) I am using, you are wrong. I am only one person. I haven't even read what Emily, Jane, and Susan have to say - I will now, though - but I can assure you, they are not me and I don't know who they are, either. Sorry to burst your bubble. :)

Also, Groovis...I can't speak for Emily, Jane, and Susan (or bk) - but I, Magpie and Maggie, can assure you that my money and my mouth are in the EXACT same place. Sorry again for the caps, guys - I really am trying to break the habit. :)

@Bob (Robert) - haha! I call this town Mayberry all the time - probably not for the same reason you are referring to on here, but still. Go easy on bk - he/she was defending me, and I needed some of that in my cranky mood yesterday! :)

Sue - As parents in Vienna, we all get involved in something - Crew, Track, Drama, band, TJ admissions, Fairgrade, SLEEP, etc. - those are our "issues." Seems like there are some impassioned parents commenting about this series of articles on drugs at Madison. For those who feel strongly about this issue, the board positions at VMCC are calling your name......

I also wanted to tell you, Bob - that not all these parents are "VMCC" parents. And the people who do run the VMCC are all resigning at then end of April, as Groovis said. A lot of times, it's not the organization (or company, or school, or town) that is the problem - it's the people running it. Remember that and keep an open mind - not all parents are controlling and nosey.

Beware of what you ask for. .... I wish you were right - that "we all get involved in something..." It's often the tireless few who do the work for all. I guess you are saying "drugs and alcohol" is part of the "our issues" you refer to. I am sure the VMCC appreciates your efforts at recruitment! What is your issue, Groovis? You are just as impassioned as everyone else on this issue. Maybe you should man up? :-)

Oops - I meant KEVIN, not Bob. haha! You young people are confusing me with all your different names. :) And also, Kevin...some of us realize that surveys don't tell the whole story. Like I said in an earlier, comment - you can find just about any statistic to prove you right, if you really look for it. I think, from what I just finished reading today, there are some parents on here that really do want to listen to the voice of the students. Have some faith.

@Groovis - I do not use my real name on Patch comments only because my son has requested that I not...he is concerned that I will ruin his social life. :) My other two children have wanted to sign up and comment in defense of their mother and tell everyone where they can "stick it" - but, obviously, I have told them a) it's inappropriate and b) not necessary. However, for all I know, one or both of them could be pretending to be Sue and Jane. When I saw the post from bk last night - the one thanking "Maggie" for her efforts, I thought maybe it was my knucklehead middle child, as Burger King is his favorite restaurant. But they know I am magpie, not maggie - and the prose is not the right style. What I am trying to tell you is that if you make assumptions and you're wrong, you end up making a fool of yourself. I don't know who you are or why you think someone is trying to plant posts, but you were wrong about me, so you may be wrong about them, too. Just looking at for you, seriously.

Alright, now that we've established that the black helicopters aren't floridating (word?) our water...

@Sue: Do kids not understand the consequences of drugs? I believe that we all have an extremely complete working, firsthand knowledge of the effects of marijuana on the teen brain. The problem is that our reality has for some strange reason failed to coincide with the claimed consequences we all heard about from awkward health videos during our 9th and 10th grade years. See my earlier comments where I note that many of the most intelligent, successful students I know smoke with some regularity. They aren't sexpots, maniacs behind the wheel, or flunkies. If you want to discourage drug use via the school, then stop trying so damn hard. Allow me to elaborate. Outside efforts to curb inside drug use are regarded as, at best, comical by Madison students. How much weight do you think a health teacher whom we do not respect or like has with us while lecturing? Little to none to negative. Students are put off by corny programs spawned by well-intentioned adults who clearly, CLEARLY haven't set foot in a high school since the 90's (at latest). We can tell when your solution comes from statistics and study groups and articles - we know that these initiatives and programs are not founded upon real, one-on-one interaction with students. We learn when we believe the teachers respect us, we ignore lessons when we can tell they are created to inform us without first attempting to understand us.

@Jane: That was the most vitriolic, ad-hominem attack I have weathered since a tenth grade Facebook squabble. I assume full responsibility for my actions, and so do my parents. I recognize that in order to deserve freedoms I must first earn them by complying with the rules set down by my parents. I recognize that once these freedoms are granted, mistakes I make are my own. My point is that parents with children who are smoking and drinking should never have allowed them the freedoms they need to do so. I am frankly astounded that you would stoop so low as to insult my parents and their parenting style. I'll note (again) that not once in my life have I smoked a cigarette, tasted alcohol outside of communion, or taken any drugs. I believe that I have proposed reasonable ideas and defended them with a graceful tone and clear logic. This is the only frame of reference you have with which to judge me, and I fail to see how these facts point to a troubled teen dependent on his parents and bound for psychological issues severe enough to warrant therapy. You crossed a line, and owe both me and my parents an apology.

Sue: Are you asking for parenting advice? I frankly don't feel qualified to give it. That's why I haven't critiqued any specific parenting strategies on this thread - but if you want to know my foolish, stereotypically teenage opinion then I'll post it for posterity's sake.

There is no anger here, Sue. I'm frustrated, but no more or less frustrated than any of the parents on this thread. The generation gap at its finest, eh?

@Bob - any chance we can discuss outside of this thread? Anonymously, of course. Your input could be very valuable to something I am working on. If you can put yesterday's exchange in the past, and start fresh - you won't regret it. If not, can I at least quote your comment above (about the corny drug education videos, etc.)??? magpie0813@gmail.com

I currently am a junior at Madison High School, I have a clean track record, I haveenever done drugs, I have never drank, and I am very annoyed with some of these comments left from parents of Madison students and members of the Vienna community. To respond to the survey post, I filled out the Vienna Patch survey on drug use at Madison. Just to make myself clear, I filled it out honestly because I want my school to be safe and drug free (as cliche as that may sound.) I was raised extremely well by my parents who are married and have been married for years. My parents are able to support themselves plus their four kids giving me and my siblings a great foundation to prosper into respectful and responsible adults.

I have been schooled in Fairfax County Schools my entire life, I have reveived a supurb education and aspire to one day be a teacher. With that aspiration and those with that occupation are students second parents and the adults we look up to. Still to this day we are told that if we feel uncomfortable with anything that is going on in and out of school to tell a teacher, parent, or a trusted adult, so when I walk in the doors of Madison I should have at least one teacher I trust. Teachers are not oblivious to the drug scandals or faded students. These teachers have been faced with the same drugs that high school students are still faced with today. Pot from the 1970's doesn't have different side-effects than that of the pot from the 2010's. These teachers know when their students come into class high, baked, faded, whatever you want to call it. The problem is, is that these teachers either don't care or don't want to ruin their pristine reputation of their beloved students by turning them into security for doing something stupid but nonetheless illegal in the state of Virginia. When our school security officers are brought a student due to drug use, the security officers do what they are supposed to with these students who make stupid decisions.

Madison is a great school, Madison has a great athletic department, and Madison has great acedemics, all of what I just stated is debateable from student to student but as a whole, Madison is a very nice school to attend. At the beginning of every school year, every student attending a Fairfax County Public School has a responsibility to read and sign a contract (Students Rights and Responsibilities) stating that they have read and understand the policies of Fairfax County Public Schools. Many students (not only at Madison) break that contract every year by breaking FCPS's rules and policies. Being a student who attends Madison every day, I can say that since I began high school in 2008, there is a lot more drug use. I have been pressured, I have seen, but I have never done anything I am faced with. Parents who have commented on this article seem to have a lot of faith in their children but this article wasn't directed towards just your kids, this article is about the kids who make stupid decisions because they don't have parents who care enough about them to stop and/or talk to them about the decisions they are making. In a way the students using drugs is a reflection of their parents but in the other direction these students have been given the tools and education about these drugs but instead they turn themselves in the wrong direction to rebel.

As a teenager I rebel it get attention whether or not it is positive or negative, my parents or whomever notice me. Parents need to get through their heads that we are still kids and we make mistakes. By mistakes I mean forgetting to turn in your homework, crashing your car, etc. Smoking, doing drugs, and drinking are not mistakes, kids engage in these activities on purpose to fill in gaps they have in their lives because they might not always have the privledge of having married parents, money, or trusted adults they feel comfortable falling back on. Pot is a huge deal at Madison and I thank the people/parents who care enough about me to take time out of they lives and try to make my learning environment a better place to be. What these parents are trying to do in eliminate drug use from school grounds so the students who have better judgement and chose not to participate in illegal activities don't have to be surrounded by drug on a daily basis. Who cares about statistics, this article is talking about real people who need help. Who cares if the percentage of pot users have increased or decreased. POT IS A PROBLEM that needs to be fixed and defending your children and the students who aren't envolved in drugs is doing no justice for your childrens friends that might be involved.

Every parent should be advocating a drug free school zone and it is ridiculous how selfish some parents are being. How do you know that your children aren't envolved? They can just as easily lie to your face as they can lie on drug usage surveys. This was a very well written article that protrays the events occuring at Madison presently. Arguing over what you think is right on an article post isn't getting anyone anywhere, go to a VMCC or PTA meeting and share your ideas there. I am really surprised in how little parents and faculty at Madison care about this issue (and thank you to the parents that do care.)

@Jane: That was the strangest sounding apology I've ever heard. By implying that my stance on parenting is wrong, you are by inference saying the same about that of my parents. If you're prepared to address me as an adult and act like one yourself, then please continue to discuss. If not, save your attacks on my opinions for a bar or a sporting event.

I am absolutely a student. I have three classes which consist almost entirely of working on a computer, a free period, and lunch.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in that post, but look over my previous comments - the idea is that you teach your children right and wrong. If you do so, and do so well, and then only allow freedom and responsibility where it is earned (not necessarily by actions alone, but by character as well - my parents have denied me things I have requested though I may have exhibited good behavior in that area because they felt my 'heart attitude' was not appropriate), then odds are your child will make good decisions. At any rate, that process is going to be infinitely more effective than any community or school effort.

John: That was perhaps the most Freudian response to this issue I have ever heard. Not necessarily a bad thing, but a lot of kids just smoke pot because it feels good. Because there's a culture of 'if it feels good, do it'.

Got any hobbies, John? What inside your psyche (sp?) creates that dependency on bowling/knitting/poker? Or do you just do it to kill time and because it's fun?

My repertoire of cultural references is at about the Freudian depth, I'm not quite at the level where I can refer to Jung. Unless it's about his personality archetypes.

@Chloe - I sound like the Pied Piper, but email me at magpie0813@gmail.com...anonymously. I would like some more information, if you are willing to share. Thanks.

All of this leaves me curious as to what exactly the concerned parents want done, how much it's going to cost, and what other things will be sacrificed in order to pay for what they want. For example, given the choice between another security person and another teacher, I'd opt for the teacher. I'd rather spruce up science labs than install video cameras and pay someone to sit around watching them. The school needs to spend its finite resources on education, and not waste them putting on a show of concern t0 appease a vocal minority of parents. Now, if you're going to bring outside funding to the effort, and not cut into instructional time or turn the school into a prison camp, then more power to you.

I will point out that one group that doesn't seem to have weighed in are the parents of students who use drugs. These people exist. Since people say they know students who use drugs, then they know who some of those parents are. Has anyone asked them what help they need in reining in drug use by their children? I think it would be very enlightening to send home a survey to the parents of Madison asking them the same sorts of questions that FCPS puts in the survey the kids take at school. The VMCC could prepare the survey, tally the results, and post them on the internet at no cost to the school. If nothing else, it would encourage a broader spectrum of parents to comment on the situation. If my kid brings a survey home, I'll fill it out.

22180...I will just say that I am one of the parents that you wished more power to. And, with all due respect, how do you know the parent's of students who use drugs, or have used drugs are not weighing in? It's like I said in an earlier comment. A lot of people are making a lot of assumptions - inaccurate ones. One person actually assumed I was virtually all of the different parents commenting, just using different aliases. There are people with similar ideas who are working to develop them - and it won't cost the school a dime. And I doubt anyone is going to bother bringing in more security - the Big Brother approach is not effective with anyone, but particuarly not teenagers. We care about them, we don't want to torture them.

The survey for parents is a good idea - the kids have already filled out enough of those. :)

Pamm - thanks for sharing all that specific information. I think you are absolutely right about a vast amount of misinformation "out there." I was not part of the parent panel discussions, but have been privy to the action plan - which does not focus on "enforcement" - a word that has been misused/misconstrued all over the place. The plan focuses on a community approach, not a parent approach.

If anyone is interested, go to the McLean Safe website and just browse. You will find that it is very informative and has great links to other resources. This is something that the "new VMCC" could learn from to improve their own website. If we can all just move the dialogue in a positive direction - and leave our assumptions at the door - it would make all the difference. No one is delusional - eradicating drug use is not the goal. The goal is to have the most informed community possible - and the community includes, parents, school administrators, teachers, and students.

On another note - for anyone concerned about my asking kids to email me privately...I am simply giving them an opportunity to share their experiences, thoughts, and ideas anonymously without the risk of being called out or attacked - not saying anyone is attacking them; however, it is their perception that this is the case and they seem defensive - rightly so. Electronic communication has serious flaws - one of which is that delivery of tone rarely matches intended tone. Let's keep that in mind!

Thanks you Pamm and Maggie for supporting the work of the VMCC and the concerned parents. The VMCC has done the best it could with the limited number of parents involved for YEARS. If the "new VMCC", as you call it, is going to succeed and look anything like the McLean Safe Coalition, it is going to need more than the 7 members that carried it this far. "It takes a village" doesn't only apply to raising children. I think we have a terrific group of parents that will continue and improve on what was started sixteen years ago. You are both so right, the misinformation and inaccurate accounts of what the VMCC and the concerned parents are about is troubling and only perserverance and unified message is going to overcome, the naysayers are certainly consistent.

Don't discount the VMCC website http://www.viennacommunitycoalition.com/ it has a lot of useful information. And if you know someone that can take over the duties of redesigning and more importantly maintain the content, by all means have them contact the board@viennacommunitycoalition.com! I'll be happy to reply.

MAL - in no way did I mean to discount the current website or any of the work the VMCC has done. By "new VMCC" I just meant new people. And I think new approaches are always a postive thing. You are right about needing the whole village. This particular village doesn't have the best track record for working together - haha. I sure hope that changes. One thing I always say to my kids is, "Don't tell me what you don't want, tell me what you do." I will carry that a bit further to apply to this topic..Don't tell me what we can't do, tell us what we can. Don't tell us what won't work, tell us what will. I am not directing that at you, MAL - or any one person in particular - it's just something for everyone to think about. I don't like to hear the word "can't" and the phrase "It won't work" makes me even crazier! :/

I am so sick of seeing all these obnoxious parents blaming the school, blaming the community, blaming everyone but themselves and their children. I am a Madison graduate and my brother is a senior there now, we know plenty of kids who smoke weed, you're going to be surrounded by it everywhere. In all four years I attended I never once encountered drug use at school. The reason my brother and I are drug free is because of our PARENTS. The school can ramble on about staying away from drugs, the annoying parents in the community who can't mind their own business can shove it in our faces all they want, but at the end of the day it all comes down to what happens at home.

Maggie no offense taken. I REALLY don't like to post on these boards because, as you stated so well, "delivery of tone rarely matches intended tone". I prefer to deal in facts and action based on facts rather than repeat for the fifteenth million time "what I mean by...", to me it's wasted energy.

Re: parent survey. Actually there is a "Principal Performance Evaluation Program (PPEP) - Parent Opinion Survey "
http://www.fcps.edu/accountability/off_stu_test/

Wouldn't it be interesting if all Madison parents took it?

Actually, MAL, luckily for me I won't be the kind of parent I'm talking about here. What I mean is, random parents from the community that I do not know - I don't love and respect them as I do my own parents, so in all honesty their opinions on how I should chose to live really don't mean much to me at all.

By the way maybe you all should take the time to realize how lucky you are to even have your kids going to a safe school in a nice wealthy community. My boyfriend went to high school in Dale City and he recalls stabbings at school, hard drug use, and fights almost daily. Just because your precious child happens to know a few kids who smoke weed, or does it them self, does not mean they are jeopardizing their future or the safety of themselves and the community. There are much bigger problems in this world. And last time I checked the parents of kids my age grew up in the 70's, we all know about drug use in the 70's, and most of that generation grew up just fine.

This is not directed at any one person - it's directed at everyone....I have read through each and every comment more than once.

I do not see one that blames Madison for anything. I do not see one that says Madison is not an excellent school. I do not see one that denies that drugs are in every school. I do not see one that suggests it is possible to eradicate drug use among young people. I do not see one that suggests parents don't have a responsibility to talk to their kids about drugs. I do not see one that blames the community for anything. I do not see one from a parent telling young people how to live their lives.

I do see some that say everyone in the community should work together. I do see some that say the student voice needs to be heard. I do see some that say the current drug education in school is not effective. I do seem some that say that kids without parent support need help. I do see a lot of contradictory statistics. I do see some comments from students saying Madison is great. I do see some from students saying Madison has drugs and something should be done about it. I do see some that suggest some people have multiple personality disorder. And, I do see many from young people telling parents how to live their lives and raise their kids.

Nikki - I read them all again (for probably the 10th time). The only person who says the administration is not doing its job is Chloe - and she is a student, not a parent. Everyone else seems to be saying that parents should implement good parenting and also that parents should work with the school and the students to help out. I am not being argumentative - I am seriously inquiring about what you have perceived as whining. I agree that good parenting is first and foremost, but I disagree that anyone on this thread is not taking responsibility. When I read the comments, I hear some parents saying exactly what you are saying about good parenting, and I hear some parents agreeing with that but also saying that some of the strategies for educating students need to be improved. That doesn't have anything to do with Madison - that has to do with the Fairfax County curriculum. I also hear some parents saying that not all kids have the same kind of parents, so they want to help the ones that don't so they don't get in trouble. Every student deserves to have their voice heard, to be told the truth about drugs, to be able to ask questions and get a straight answer (not a "just say no" answer). And every student should have to be spared the agony of watching the corny drug videos that Bob mentioned. Would you agree with that?

I'm getting tired of reading sociological pabulum about parenting and personal responsibility, which are certainly reasonable but rather difficult to achieve short-term. It would be much more interesting to hear specific concrete suggestions about what to do and what not to do, to keep drugs out of any high school.

My vote is to do something about the bathrooms. The students say that's where the smoking goes on, both of tobacco and other less legal plant material. Install tamper-proof smoke detectors in the bathrooms. They make ones that specifically detect cigarette smoke. Since there are particular bathrooms that have more of a problem, arrange for a staff member to be in those bathrooms before school, after school, and between classes. No fun, but there are a lot of adults working in the building and they can take turns. They can lean casually against the wall and read a book.

The current practice of locking the bathrooms is cruel and demeaning. Though I've been told that most of the water fountains don't work, and I wonder if there's a connection?

And, one more thing... Is it your opinion that any kid who is not "drug-free" has bad parents? Is it possible for someone to have very good parents and still choose to do drugs?

That is a question for everyone to think about, seriously.

L Bligh - your suggestions do not help to disspell the myth that we're all evil, nosey, punitive parents who don't take responsibility and just want the school to fix the problem caused by our bad parenting. :)

I think the goal is to actually get students (however few of them there are) to stop smoking (pot or cigarettes) in school - not to actually catch them doing it. :) Not saying there shouldn't be some basic measures to detect it when it happens, but definitely think the money and teacher time would be better invested in education.

Just my two cents.

And, with that...I'm signing off for good. Even I have had enough of me. :)

Pamm: This issue in that exchance was that Jane would charge kids with making adult decisions and seperate that responsibility entirely from the parents. If she believes that I am somehow capable of finding a moral compass and concrete sense of self apart from any guidance, then she should address me as an adult or at least as a senitent human being.

I am 18, enjoy long walks on the beach, and keep hamsters. Would my social security number be a better assurance of my identity?

Maggie - there is no one-to-one correlation between good parenting and good kids, but if after 15 years parents have failed to instill values in their children, it's shaky to assume that some school intervention or community intervention will. And the fact is that in the vast majority of these cases, absent or enabeling parents are involved.

I'd like to lay a blanket assertion down at this point. I don't think the young adults on this forum are right, and I don't think the parents are either. The key to every conflict is communication. Parents don't *in the kids' eyes* respect the students, and therefore the students don't respect the adults. As adults, I believe that the burden of establishing respect and communication lies with you - but as students, we should demonstrate that we're prepared to act like adults if we demand to be treated as them. To this end: Parents, avoid stereotyping children or making generalizations about us. Students, avoid criticizing adult intervention when we're giving them reasons to intervene.

I doubt that such communication will ever be established, but I firmly believe that no solution will ever be found until it has.

Even funnier how some people believe that lame story. I've heard the chex mix version and the trail mix version and neither are believable because neither look anything like weed. I'm like Bob Marley and don't think anyone is right on here but we all know what was in the baggie. The more kids that keep saying it was trail or chex mix the dumber we look. Don't give us a bad rep.

I would not normally spend my time on these parent blogs. I read this article because someone mentioned something about it and I was curious as to what the students said on the surveys. And it is hard not to read the comments of people arguing back and forth. I somehow got an email with your comment. I will have to uncheck that box that I see now but since I already read your very Socratic reasoning, I thought I should let you know that all of your logic and ad makeitupisms are flawed because some of us know the students involved and know that it was not trail mix. The trail mix "claim" is a rumor and no one knows how it got started. Kids did not claim anything because kids were not asked. When I said that we all know what was in the baggie it's because we all really know what was in the baggie. I hate to break it to y'all but Madison students are not passing trail mix around. The students who keep saying this are just repeating what they heard and making it look like kids are just defending other kids. That's why I said they are giving us a bad rep. Kids at Madison smoke weed. State the truth when we all know the truth. That's what I'm saying. And no matter how much you apply your better than everyone else logic it won't change the truth.

Sooo the rinky dink paper and the staffer said it's so and therefore it must be so. It couldn't be that the paper got their facts wrong and the staffer is lying to cover his ass. It has to be that the kid is just making assumptions that the better than him parent can find holes in. Based on what I said, your last sentence is the only one that makes any sense. Or it could be that I am one of the students. It doesn't matter because adults just want to believe what they want and will use all their comp

Complicated logic and fancy words to turn their beliefs into truth. It's very simple this time though. Their was weed in the bag and the students were never questioned. You can keep giving your lawyer type arguments all you want. The paper got it wrong or whoever talked to the paper was wrong or lied. I'm just trying to clear things up so everyone can get over it. Believe what you want. Nothing I say is going to change that anyway since you're better than me.

To clear up your confusion, I am a student at Madison too. I thought that was pretty clear but guess not. Even if you didn't realize that, I am wondering why you are calling this my paper? It isn't even a paper actually. It's an online community news site. And it most definitely is not mine. I just was telling everyone to stop spreading the ridiculous crap about the trail mix. I did not say Madison was a druggie school and I did not say anything about bad kids. I said the truth. That a lot of Madison students smoke weed. You are not making me look dumb. You are making yourself look dumb because everyone knows I'm right. And you look particularly dumb because you don't know what you are talking about. That's why I thought you were a parent. I actually still do. There was weed in the baggie and the students were not questioned. Ask the students themselves if you know so much. I can't wait for your response.

And if you think there is no coke, oxy, and other drugs at Madison think again.

Hi all,

I saw someone mention an official story and wanted to offer what Patch was given as the "official story." The "official story" given by the principal in interviews with Patch for this series was that the students were not questioned. He did not mention trail mix in the interview.

Thanks for reading and commenting,
Erica