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Speak Out: Should Home-Schooled Students Play on Public School Teams?

Senate Committee Kills ‘Tebow Bill’ on Thursday night, but some Patch readers think proposal should be voted into law.

Virginia's Senate Education and Health Committee shot down a bill Thursday that would have allowed home-schooled students to participate in public schools’ sports teams.

Committee members killed House Bill 1442 — also known as the “Tebow bill"  — on a 7-8 vote, shelving it for the remainder of this legislative session.

But should the bill have reached the full Senate floor?

Fairfax County School Board member Ryan McElveen highlighted the defeat of the bill as one of the three most important actions residents could advocate for this session as Richmond pressed on with what he called an "educational extremism."

The school board voted to advocate against the proposal, McElveen wrote,  "because, in short, the bill would be unfair to current FCPS students who must comply with academic standards in order to participate."

"While the Tebow bill would require home-schooled students to meet academic benchmarks for two years before joining a team, those standards are not clear. As some have argued, public schools aren’t “a la carte”—students and their families have the choice to participate in the public school system and all of the activities it provides."

Some commenters agreed, saying "school teams should be just that - composed of students at that school."

Another commenter said residents pay taxes to schools whether their children are enrolled in the public school system or not, so "public schools should always be forced to allow non-public school children to try out for sports teams."

Others pointed out blocking the bill as a whole is stopping jurisdictions beyond Fairfax from making their own decision.

"Some school boards want to say "yes" and by opposing it, you're blocking their right to choose what to do in their community," Catherine Myers wrote.

Tell us: Should the "Tebow" policy be passed in Fairfax? In Virginia? Share your thoughts in the comments.

Jody February 16, 2013 at 06:23 pm
Just calling it like I see it as you are. You're exhibiting the kind of animosity toward home schoolers that I'm objecting to. If there is a limited number of slots on a team, the coach should pick the best kids who try out. Nothing unfair about that. If there is no comparable football team that my kid could join outside of high school (that could mean earning a scholarship, by-the-way), it's only fair to give him that access. I don't see what's so fair about trying to keep the public schools a cloistered group that excludes some kids. Sports participation isn't even about education; it's a totally separate activity supported by our county/state.
Jody February 16, 2013 at 06:31 pm
Wow. You're saying home schooled kids aren't even part of their community and should feel no security, trust, loiyalty and pride. What a great attitude. Maybe you should petition to build a giant barbed wire fence around your school to make sure none of those unclean home-schoolers sneak in to play football.
elizabeth February 16, 2013 at 06:32 pm
Well, Jody the tone in your comments seems to equate to animosity. Being on a team is a form of education, it is about working together, being selfless and striving to overcome challenges through strategy and hardwork. Your comments seem to tell us you were not on any teams nor do you truly know about the benefits of sports.
Being on a school team is about representing your school and community. Students are proud to represent their school, they are proud to be a part of pep rallys, and enjoy the spirit of competition. It is about their team and their school. Public schools are not cloistered environment, save that for the nuns. They are for the public school children and their communities.
Jody February 16, 2013 at 06:37 pm
You obviously don't want to include "their communities" because that would include other children in the neighborhood that are home schooled. It seems very easy for you to completely disregard their needs. I know all about the benefits of sports which is why young people should be given the opportunity to participate. I don't anticipate any lack of spirit or pride on the part of the home schoolers. This is their local high school that their friends attend.
T Ailshire February 16, 2013 at 06:39 pm
Seems there's an easy solution to the whole thing. Eliminate public-school teams. Community teams wouldn't suck up school resources; everyone who lives in the community could play; and schools could get back to real physical *education*.
And since the facilities already exist, the school system could lease them to community groups, who would be responsible for maintenance and upgrade.
COD February 16, 2013 at 06:41 pm
Why are people so willing to blindly accept the status quo for public schools? The community college system manages to serve both full time and part time students, why can't the public schools do the same thing? Full time, mandatory public schools haven't changed much since their foundation 100 years ago as a way to get kids off the farms and trained for a life in the factories. That world doesn't exist anymore, yet we blindly continue to educate our kids in the same basic manner. Stick them in school and let them progress lockstep by age for 12 years. It doesn't work. It never really did work that well.
Instead of insisting that HSers become full time public school students we should be questioning why we accept the status quo. Why are sports tied to school in the first place? Why do we really care what side of any imaginary line some kids lives in when we decide what team he is allowed for? Why don't we allow everybody to mix and match self-directed education, classes at the local public school. classes at community college, maybe classes sponsored by businesses, online classes, etc.?
elizabeth February 16, 2013 at 06:48 pm
Jody,
It isn't their high school, their high school is with other home schooler friends and families. They do not matriculate in these public high schools, they do not help support these schools through PTSAs or PTOs. They do not fund raise for these schools, they and their parents do not volunteer in these schools. It is not their school in terms of attendance, etc. To be blunt Jody you are out of the ballpark on this one. Home schoolers can attend club leagues like all other children. You make blanket statements and your animosity is chilling if someone disagrees with you.
DGeorge February 16, 2013 at 07:13 pm
This is a fascinating discussion. I thought most thinking, caring people always consider inclusion as the default position, not exclusion. Someone a while back said; "High school teams should be for the kids who belong to that school, period." Defending that position however is, at best, difficult, and that post did not justify exclusion with anything but weak opinion.
Of course the homeschoolers should be included, because thats what we do, we include, or try to, considering our past propensity to exclude. Homeschoolers not only are paying their own freight but are actually saving the county money by not taking up space in the classrooms. If a homeschooler wants to sign up for a chemistry class, why not? It is to all of our benefit for him/her to be educated and there are many ways for that to be accomplished. Lets applaud the effort. Again the default position should always be INCLUSION never Exclusion.
elizabeth February 16, 2013 at 07:19 pm
Home schoolers excluded the CHOICE to attend public schools.
RJP February 16, 2013 at 07:20 pm
Every person that's commented about the taxes, or teachers unions, or anything other than the students needs is an absolute moron. You're letting politics and personal beliefs get in the way of rational decision making. This issue is about the students, the children of the school district. Ask yourself, how does it benefit students to not allow home schooled kids to play. It certainly doesn't benefit the home schooled kid nor does it benefit the students of a traditional school. If you really want to prepare your child for success they need yo know that there competition from everywhere. Of he wants to be the starting quarterback, he needs to be the best out of his classmates and anyone home schooled. Because in real life you can be good quarterback, get injured for two weeks and be replaced by your backup who goes on and wins the Superbowl. You're not suppose to lose your job because of an injury, but you will.
Also anyone that complains that they pay taxes and don't have school aged children should be allowed to deduct that portion is an absolute idiot. If you feel that you're not getting your moneys worth, go foster or adopt a kid and enroll him or her in school. Last but not least I think people who home school are weird. Their kids are usually socially awkward as well. However they still deserve the opportunity to play sports at their local school, because its on their best interest.
Jody February 16, 2013 at 07:33 pm
Or you could face the realization that sports teams are for the public good of our children, publicly supported, and operate out of public schools for convenience. Would it make people feel any better to formally announce that education and sports are two separate things?
Jody February 16, 2013 at 07:38 pm
It is their local high school. They just don't attend it. Why should parents have to choose educating their children at home or them being able to participate on a sports team. How can a parent even begin to know what sport their child will want to play when they're older. Why the "us" vs. "them" attitude? Of course these kids will participate in fund-raising for their team! Not all sports have club leagues available. I find your desire to exclude chilling.
Jody February 16, 2013 at 07:44 pm
I'm wondering the same things COD. We desperately need a voucher system and more choices for our kids. I applaud parents who make the sacrifice to not work and home school their children because they believe it's the best choice for them. I think Ffx. County's total costs, including overhead, works out to 13K per child. Think of the possibilities.
Chuck Stein February 16, 2013 at 07:45 pm
DGeorge, to add to your point, the opinion that was previously stated ("High school teams should be for the kids who belong to that school, period") is not even the position of the Virginia High School League, the very organization that enforces the home schooling ban. The VHSL rules allow kids attending non-VHSL public schools to play for the school in the district where the parents reside (see my above comment). From what I can tell, the VHSL board and staff are dominated by public school officials. So we have here this organzation that will allow kids to play for a school they do not attend -- but only if they are going to another public school. This is hypocritical and wrong, but not surprising given the conflict of interest issues created by the VHSL's affiliations. I do find it interested that our self-identified community of progressives gets nigglingly hard-hearted toward these kids. Folks, these kids just want to play a lousy game of ball. Given 'em a break!
DGeorge February 16, 2013 at 08:04 pm
Elizabeth, please take another look at what you posted. "Home schoolers excluded the CHOICE to attend public schools." Really?
DGeorge February 16, 2013 at 08:13 pm
RJP says; "Last but not least I think people who home school are weird. Their kids are usually socially awkward as well. However they still deserve the opportunity to play sports at their local school, because its on their best interest."
That statement ranks right up there with any other discriminatory generalization that has been used against Blacks, Jews, Gays and Irish. I'm sorry if I have left any races or nationalities out.
Margaret February 16, 2013 at 09:47 pm
The parents pay taxes. The kids are entitled to play sports in the public schools. Period. Enough.
Gleb Taran February 17, 2013 at 02:05 am
I concur! We need to expand our consciousness, our enlightenment, our horizons, and our acceptance of those not marching in lock-step with FCPS. Many of us pay for FCPS through our taxes. Jody owns the ball park and the school because she pays for it, but is being closed out. How is that fair? Her kids deserve the access to whatever services or activities she feels would help advance their interests. The school does not belong solely to the ones who attend it or who have kids in it or who work on the PTA or who are in the booster clubs. It actually belongs to the ones who pay for it, which is a much larger community. It is time to change the status quo. It is always fascinating to read the justifications for various forms of discrimination and rationalization for intolerance and elitist exclusion. I enjoy re-reading the Richmond Times-Dispatch editorials and news accounts from the floor of the Virginia House of Delegates and Senate from the 1950s justifying Massive Resistance and other forms of discrimination. All those comments against opening up FCPS academics, facilities, services, athletics to the home-schooling universe could have stepped out of the pages 1950s Richmond Times-Dispatch. The irony is beautiful, but unfortunately lost on those arguing to preserve the rarified FCPS hallways and athletic fields only for the students who are physically present throughout the day!
Gleb Taran February 17, 2013 at 02:29 am
That is dark! Who are you to define "weird" or "socially awkward"? What standard of assessment are you using? Did you learn that in FCPS? An "absolute moron" and "absolute idiot"? You want to divorce rational decision making from how you pay for it and get the best bang for the buck and how the system should be used to advance education for everyone? When you cannot defend your position or advance a coherent argument, casting insults and aspersions is a safe route!
Sandra February 17, 2013 at 02:46 am
Jody, according to you, it seems that anyone disagreeing with you, in any way, shape or form, is displaying animosity. I have always said that I respect your decision to homeschool. I just do not agree with your views on allowing homeschoolers to participate in high school sports. Apparently since I fail to fall in with you on this, I am displaying animosity. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. That does not mean you have to be rude about it. I find your tone of writing to be very hostile. Those of us who disagree with you have a right to our own opinions.
Sandra February 17, 2013 at 02:56 am
Jody, your statement says it all - "It is their local high school. They just don't attend it." The fact that they don't attend their local school means they aren't a part of that high school. They may live in the school boundaries, but by choice they aren't a part of the school community. I still think the kids that are a part of that school are the ones that should play on the teams. I just don't think it is fair for kids who don't attend that school to take a spot from someone who does. I understand that you don't agree with this, but there's no reason to say that those who are against your position are against you or your beliefs personally. It's all a matter of which viewpoint you are looking from.
Gleb Taran February 17, 2013 at 05:04 am
T. Allshire - In a team sport, (football, basketball, baseball, lacrosse, hockey), your mission objective is to do what is best for the team rather for the self. You are expected to subsume your individualism in favor of what is best for the collective of the team. Later in life this translates into service in the military, or other organizations where you are part of a much bigger effort (bigger than the self) to successfully overcome the enemy, the opposition, the competition. The "team" is the "sine qua non" for your participation. Individual sports (tennis, golf, speed skating) are venues for individual accomplishment. The public high school and team is owned by the community that pays the taxes to provide the facilities. If you want to be exclusionary, then you can organize a private school and field teams that compete in the universe of other private - independent schools. There is nothing wrong with that either. That is also a very good alternative venue for developing talent as in the case of Russel Wilson by way of Collegiate School, North Carolina State, Wisconsin, Seattle. Your so called "unaffiliated" student who lives in the community where his parents pay the taxes for the facilities has every right to participate and expect to be accepted. Sorry! That is only fair! FCPS can greatly expand the universe of candidates for the team and individual sports by being inclusive and accepting the home-schooled or independent athlete. This is win-win for everyone!
Jody February 17, 2013 at 05:21 am
What a strange post. This isn't about me and I wasn't rude. Obviously there is more than one point of view. I sensed animosity when you used the phrase "suck it up" and complained about increased competition and lack of spirit. I sense that people on your side of the argument think people who home school are somehow traitors and not good community members or else they would happily send their kids to public school. Just my opinion, nothing hostile about it.
Gleb Taran February 17, 2013 at 05:59 am
That is weak! I would expect you could develop a better argument than parroting what was propounded by Saslaw. Less than 1% of citizenry actually serve in the military. Military service is a privilege, not an inherent right. Flying fighter jets just because you pay for them is nonsensical and not an satisfactory example comparable to excluding home schooled students from public school services. Your and Saslaw's example fails the logic test! All students between certain ages are to be educated. That is the law! All citizens, meeting age and citizenship requirements, are allowed to vote. That is the law! You would not deign to penalize, or punish a citizen for not voting, for opting out of the franchise. That is his right! Shame on you for wanting to punish a student, and by extension the parents, for opting out of the public school system. They have an inherent right to participate or not to participate. Since the parents pay for the public school system they are also entitled to use that system how they see fit. Not how Saslaw and you attempt to define how they can use the system. The public school system is owned by the community at large, not the elected politicians or the professional bureaucrats.
Beth Corrigan February 17, 2013 at 04:39 pm
Our decision should be foremost based on what's best for the student/ the kids/ the athletes. We're a community and those four or six or twelve years actually go pretty fast. The students will remember how they were treated and learn something from it. Public school students jump schools all the time for academic or athletic programs. Team spirit only goes so far. Parents of public school athletes weigh in heavily about where is best for their student.
These kids are in our neighborhood and in our community. I say fewer boxes, fewer hurdles. Open after-school sports to all kids because that's probably what they would want. It is supposed to be their thing. Show up, try out, and PLAY.
CMC February 19, 2013 at 09:17 pm
Chuck, the Virginia Dept. of Education has pointed out a serious gap (see the Washington Post's article on this here http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/thousands-of-virginia-students-arent-required-to-get-an-education/2012/09/10/144fb9f0-fb54-11e1-b153-218509a954e1_story.html). More and more families that home-school are taking the added step to assume full control of their children's education, which exempts them from reporting. According to the state, there's been an increase of more than 50% of these types of arrangements in the past decade.
Pete March 13, 2013 at 10:31 pm
The argument that because they pay taxes home schooled kids should be allowed to play on public school team. If that is the case why should kids who attend private schools not also be allowed to play on public school teams?
As many others have stated if you want to be on a public school team you should attend the school. If you choose to be home schooled or attend public school you choose to give up that opportunity.
Mel R. March 24, 2013 at 02:05 am
So then where does it all end? Show up and play a sport this year. Then next year some parents will clamor for their kids to be allowed into the public high school's AP chemistry class because the parents can't teach that to the kids and "they need it to get into college." Then parents will say, "Let my child into the public high school drama class because she wants to apply to colleges for drama school." And eventually it will all snowball until home-schooling parents are cherry-picking not just the sports they want for their kids but the academic classes, extracurriculars and other things that they can't teach their kids themselves or via a homeschooling network, or they'll insist their kids be allowed into classes that improve the kids' abiltiy to get into certain colleges. The "Tebow bill' is about football, really, but it is the thin end of the wedge and would open the door to these parents pressing for their kids to pick and choose what they like from public schools. School is not a menu from which they can order what they like. If the Tebow bill ever passes it's going to create a mess for academics, not just sports, down the road. And don't argue, "But that's not happening in other states that do it already." Just wait.
Gleb Taran March 24, 2013 at 06:00 am
You are wrong. It ends when all students (public and private schooled) are allowed full access to all services at public schools paid for with the taxes of all citizens. This is the new leading edge of civil rights! Stop treating the home schooled kids like they belong at the back of the bus. Just because they opt out of full-time attendance at the local public school system does not mean they opt out of society. Being home schooled does not mean you opt out of all public school system services. Their parents pay for the "three-ring circus" we call public schools. They are entitled to cherry pick and choose (academics, clubs, sports) those services they want for their kids. Get used to it! Private schools will likewise recruit (i.e. cherry pick) public school athletes for skill positions getting short-shrift on their respective public school teams. Get used to that too! VHSL, whether they like it or not, will get used to it too! The VHSL monopoly will end! Its not a mess. Its life in the modern world! The old paradigm is kaput!
Gleb Taran March 24, 2013 at 06:15 am
It is about tolerance!
It is about multi-culturalism! It is about diversity! It is about accepting those different than you! You cannot discard those students who are being home schooled like they are second class citizens. When their parents pay for it, they are entitled to it however they see fit! They can choose to use it all. They can choose to use not of it. They can pick and choose whatever elements theyt want for their kids. That is the American way. When did we forget about that!

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